July 9, 2017
Part I: An Honest Conversation About It's Value For The Everyday Believer
Special Disclosure Regarding This Interview
Proudly brought to you by Making Much of Christ Ministries, this two part blog project is a collaborative resource featuring content authors Brandon K. Rachal (Pastor and Life Advocate) and Marqueze Kennedy (seminary student at the prestigious Boston University). Primarily written as a Q&A, it is our hope that this style of interview would provide two alternative ways of processing and articulating a somewhat under-communicated topic in most Christian circles. Part One of this Q&A will feature 10 questions posed by a ghost interviewer followed by a bonus round where Marqueze and Brandon ask each other one challenge question. The goal of this project is not to exhaustively explore all things connected to theological education. Instead, it is our hope that Brandon and Marqueze’s exchange would really just start a very necessary conversation; prayerfully motivating you to pose more questions and seek more answers on your own. As with all things connected to our organization, it is our hope that this worthy pursuit would help you to aim your affections to supremely value of the supremely valuable in Jesus The Christ. Enjoy!
(1.) Before fully committing to the topic at hand, we thought it would be extremely helpful for our readers if each of you would briefly introduce yourself by providing a short bio of your religious/spiritual background. Brandon let’s start with you and then Marqueze can follow.
Brandon: Let’s see, I grew up as a regular church attender at a nondenominational church; mostly due to my mother’s influence as she did her best to instill principles of scripture in my heart. Many shared that they saw “a call” on my life, but I spent most of my teen years concerned about complex-identity crisis, negative self-image and general awkwardness as I tried to navigate the transition to manhood. I always felt incredible pressure to measure up to what people “saw” versus how “I felt.” I did not really start exploring my faith/religion for myself until my first semester of college in 2004. And it was during my sophomore year that I recall making the decision to “follow Jesus” for myself. As God began revealing some idols in my heart; I made the incredibly difficult decision to relinquish my athletic scholarship and left the basketball team to free my time up to focus on doing more work for the kingdom. In retrospect; I can see how that decision would be my starting point into a saving relationship with Christ.
Marqueze: I also grew up attending church on a regular basis, though as a child I often contested getting up for church on Sunday mornings. I attended the same nondenominational church from the age of 3 all the way until the time I left for APU at 20 years old. I also had no lack of Christian influences in my life while growing up. Everyone I was surrounded by had the same theological beliefs as I did. I went to a private Christian school from 6th to 12th grade where all my friends worshipped just like me and prayed to the same God I did.
(2.) Do either of you have formal or informal theological education? Please share.
Brandon: I have both actually; although much more of the latter as opposed to the former. Specifically regarding my formal education, I attended and graduated from Bethany University (an affiliate of Assemblies of God…although I don’t personally identify myself theologically with the AG denomination for many reasons) in 2008 where I received a Bachelor of Arts in Social Science and a minor in Biblical Theology. And though I went on to graduate school at Grand Canyon University, it was not in theological studies. So while my formal theological education stops after my minor, I have extensive informal education through various reputable online curriculum, vast resources and curriculum through Grace International Churches (through which I currently hold my pastorate license), learning under the tutelage of other great bible teacher/preachers of the faith, and hundreds if not thousands of hours of self-discovery through the Bible, scholarly books, biographies, doctrines, creeds, and many other sources in and out of the “Christian” camp of thinking.
Marqueze: I, similar to Brandon, have both formal and informal theological education. Though for me, both of these forms of studying went side-by-side. I started attending Azusa Pacific University in the Fall of 2013 and eventually ended up completing my degree in Spring of 2016 graduating with a Bachelor’s of Arts in Biblical Studies and a minor in Theology. Immediately following graduation I then began attending Fuller Theological Seminary where I started working on my Master’s of Arts in Theological Studies with an emphasis on Bible. I am currently in the middle of transferring to Boston University’s School of Theology to finish out my Master’s program there and plan to eventually pursue Ph.d work in Biblical Studies. My informal education comes from consistent studying and book reading in the field of theology outside of my school curriculum.
(3.) As a pastor, how would you articulate a helpful definition of theology to the everyday Christ follower?
Brandon: The word “theology” comes from the two Greek words theos and logos that combined mean “the study of God.” It’s important to note that the study of God universally applies to all religions who claim a deity. Therefore, I believe it’s important to distinguish that our conversation is specifically concerning “Christian theology.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible. Not even the best theology will explain God and His purposes because God is infinitely and eternally higher than we are; but God does want us to know Him insofar as we are able, and theology is the art and science of knowing what we can know and understand about God in an organized and understandable manner. Proper biblical theology is a good thing; and when correctly understood, it is uniting. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
(4.) Historically, what was the intended purpose behind the pursuit of theological education?
Marqueze: To be honest this question entirely depends on what time period one is looking at. Christian theological education as we would imagine it probably started around the fifth century C.E. There were definitely people who were becoming heavily involved in Christian theology at this point but to be honest, “Christian Theology” was not a thing yet. They didn’t have the set doctrines and beliefs to study like we do today. They were instead in the process of nailing down what they believed. Lots of arguments and disagreements concerning the nature of Christianity caused for many debates and church splitting. It wasn’t until the fourth century C.E. that Christian belief over the divinity of Jesus was agreed upon by the orthodox church. From this point on, Christian theology became less about figuring out what they believed and more about expanding the Christian empire. In order to expand the Christian empire you needed more churches, and in order to have more churches you need more pastors and leaders educated in Christian theology.
Brandon: Honestly, this answer truly can be answered in a multitude of ways. I would say historically there were two overarching purposes for theological education . 1- To teach and mature students (not pastors) to one day lead local churches. The concept of a minister being well into his pastorate before attending seminary later in life is a rather new approach. 2- To teach, equip, and mobilize Bible-believing Christians to do missionary service around the world. The aim was to provide a robust approach to the study of God to better equip them to recognize a broader perspective of God’s plan for people-groups that looked much different than their own.
(5.) Marqueze, being that you are currently a seminary student, what other reasons are you finding people going to seminary?
Marqueze: Well, we are currently in a time where the expansion of the Christian empire is no longer necessary. Christianity is no longer a small group of churches spread out around the Ancient Near East. Christianity is a MASSIVE empire that still runs much of the western world. That being said, expansion is no longer the only purpose for theological education. All of us are a result of a deeply seeded Christian history. Many people therefore are now going to seminary in order to understand themselves and their religion better. Many churches only teach Scripture (through their specific lens) and use these teachings in order to shepherd Christ’s flock. Understanding Christian history and how we got to the point we are at now isn’t much of a concern for most churches. Therefore people are now going to seminary to get that information. Another major purpose for seminary which has been around the late 19th century is the critical study of the Bible (people had already been doing this but it wasn’t a field of study). With biblical criticism, people were now putting the Bible under a microscope and heavily critiquing it. Though much of this was originally done out of rebellion people started to learn more information than we could have ever imagine about the Scriptures. This is my main focus when it comes to pursuing theological education.
(6.) How has theological education shaped your personal relationship with both God and the world around you?
Brandon: You know when Marqueze and I saw this question, we chuckled thinking, “Truly, a book could be written to expound upon how theological education has shaped our lives.” For me, I guess I would begin by stating that it has first and foremost increased my confidence in handling scripture. This is of paramount importance to me because the word of God can be difficult to comprehend and quite intimidating to navigate in a coherent way. Secondly, it has enlarged my Christian worldview in every area of life. To me, having a well-thought through worldview is so much more than my personal viewpoint. It is more like a comprehensive life system that helps me navigate both basic and complex questions about life. Theological education has helped me make strides towards the application of God’s Will to every sphere of my life. Thirdly, I would say it has made me humble. The more I learn the more I realize the immensity of God in juxtaposition to my finiteness. And Praise Christ, for I find MUCH rest in this reality.
Marqueze: It’s funny comparing my theological education with Brandon as we have had such drastically different experiences. In complete honesty, theological education has decreased my confidence in handling Scripture. Much of my studies concerning Scripture has to do with perspective and point of views and just like with anyone interpreting anything, it all boils down to viewpoints. Personal experiences and cultural environments shape our readings of Scripture more than we think. Also, there is a lot of historical background information behind our sacred Scripture; therefore, the more I learn, the more I recognize how incredibly important it is to know. One of the great things about this though is that it has helped me become much more humble when it comes to interpreting Scripture. I recognize that there is so much more behind these text then we can ever imagine. The more I study the more I recognize how much I don’t know.
(7.) The subtitle of this blog project poses the question of evaluating the importance of theological education. Does theological education have value for the everyday believer as opposed to just those who are pastors and Bible teachers?
Marqueze: Theological education is just as important for your average believer as it is for pastors and Bible teachers. This religion that we are a part of has so much history behind it. We are the product of thousands of years of debates, politics, revolutions, empires, story tellers, etc.. Too often we simply view Christianity from our current cultural stance and don’t take the time to look over it’s history and how we got here. Christianity is so incredibly diverse that it would be a shame for any believer to be stuck solely within their own Christian culture. I encourage every believer to study theology to some degree.
Brandon: Without a doubt. From my viewpoint, this type of education for the everyday Bible-Believing Christian is grossly undervalued. When rightly taught and applied, theological education is a powerful instrument of wisdom that bestows spiritual discernment for families to better navigate their interactions as individual Christ followers with the Bible and the local church. Not every church is sufficient for families to submit themselves to…nor is every type of preaching. Moreover, there are profound mysteries God desires for His children to behold and His word. The unbiblical presumption that a pastor must be the sole interpreter of scripture so as to proverbially purée it’s contents, deconstructs an individual believers responsibility to handle the word of God with confidence; thus limiting their ability to make sound decisions for their life. I believe we (pastors/teachers in the church) must do a much better job of casting a compelling narrative that encourages our people towards this end.
(8.) What would each of you say the main areas are that people study in theology?
Marqueze: The study of theology can include a lot of different aspects. I would say one of the main areas of study and my personal favorite is the Bible. You can study the Scriptures from a multitude of different areas. You can study the Scriptures historically or as literary works of art. Both have good uses. Some other major areas of study are sociology, ancient history, ancient languages, politics, psychology, etc. All that stuff is encompassed when doing a deep study of theology. Anthropology is a fairly important part of studying theology also. This is ultimately because as Christians we derive our theology from the Scriptures and the Scriptures are written by Ancient people groups. In order to understand the Scriptures you have to understand them. Who were their allies and who were their enemies? What were the different types of classes of people in the society? What influences did they derive from other cultures? The list goes on and on of things that are important when studying theology. You can think of it like a puzzle. You might not need all the people to have a sense of what is going on, but the more you have, the clearer picture you will see.
Brandon: Oh geez, this is nearly impossible to answer for me. After all, everything is theological; meaning everything comes down to how a person answers the question about God. So just to fit the stereotype of pastors using bullet points (all in fun) , here are the 10 main areas I have found that people study:
1. God – The study of God’s existence, who God is, and what God is like
2. Christ – The study of the person, life, work, and ministry of Jesus Christ
3. Holy Spirit –The study of the person and work of the Holy Spirit
4. Scripture – The study of God’s revelation to us through the Bible
5. Humanity – The study of human nature
6. Salvation – The study of what God has done, is doing, and will do when considering the redemption story of His people and creation.
7. Sin – The study of evil and its effect on both the universe (macro-perspective) and our personal life (micro-perspective)
8. Church – The study of the formation, structure, leadership, and function of the church
9. Angels – The study of angels, demons, and spiritual principalities.
10. Eschatology – basically the study of prophecy, heaven, hell, and judgment etc.
1. God – The study of God’s existence, who God is, and what God is like
2. Christ – The study of the person, life, work, and ministry of Jesus Christ
3. Holy Spirit –The study of the person and work of the Holy Spirit
4. Scripture – The study of God’s revelation to us through the Bible
5. Humanity – The study of human nature
6. Salvation – The study of what God has done, is doing, and will do when considering the redemption story of His people and creation.
7. Sin – The study of evil and its effect on both the universe (macro-perspective) and our personal life (micro-perspective)
8. Church – The study of the formation, structure, leadership, and function of the church
9. Angels – The study of angels, demons, and spiritual principalities.
10. Eschatology – basically the study of prophecy, heaven, hell, and judgment etc.
(9.) Out of the areas mentioned, what would you say would stand as chief among them all? Why?
Brandon: Upon reflecting, option number three (scripture) would have to be chief among all in my humble estimation. As salient and glorious as the other nine areas of study are, only a robust exploration of scripture would be comprehensive enough to reveal the significance of all 10 areas together. Hopefully that makes sense? Through scripture, one would have the opportunity to learn not only about the aforementioned categories of theological study; but even more helpfully, how they interact with each other.
Marqueze: It’s hard for me to say anyone one of these is chief among the other, only because most of them rely on some knowledge and understanding of the other. But I would probably say Biblical History/ Anthropology. I think it is crucial to understand the people who wrote the Scriptures to understand the Scriptures themselves. There are so many instances in the Bible where names of people and nations are listed and though they might have absolutely no relevance to us, they have a ton of relevance to the people who wrote the Scriptures. We can’t just look past these names in the text because we don’t know how they fit into our personal relationship with Jesus. If the ancient writers mentioned them, they mentioned them for a reason.
(10.) What is the biggest roadblock hindering theological education from becoming readily available to the everyday believer?
Brandon: Within my context, I would say “fear of inadequacy/impending transformation” serves as the most significant roadblock to the everyday believer and their pursuit towards a theological education. Remember, we aren’t talking about the unbeliever who is indifferent to Christian theology; but rather the Bible-Believing Christian who proclaims Christ as Savior. Therefore, I believe the appearance of indifference to theology is much more of a protective mechanism (subconscious roadblock) than anything else. Let me explain. If an individual has already convinced themselves that they lack the intellect, resources, or somehow have been disqualified from this pursuit of understanding; what posture would best massage their conscience? Allowing themselves to feel the weight of their “perceived” inadequacies or subconsciously protecting their hearts from this weight by assuming the position of indifference or devaluing its relevance? I would estimate the latter. At the deepest levels, I believe we (BBC’s) know that to open ourselves to the full weight of Scripture is to be transformed by it. Therefore, there is fear that God’s plan will be less satisfying than our own plan. Time and time again, I have encountered church members in one on one settings where unfortunately, this was their mindset; for they were defeated before ever beginning because of fear of inadequacy or impending transformation.
Marqueze: I would say the biggest roadblock hindering believers from obtaining a theological education is the fact that they just don’t know. They don’t know how important obtaining a theological education is and even if they did many of them don’t know where to get more educated on the subject. A good amount of believers get most of their knowledge about Christianity from their church, which of course isn’t a bad thing, but the only problem with that is that the church often teaches very specific things concerning theology. Considering that your local church is a often a small group of people with the same intended goal, this makes perfect sense. Your local church can’t teach everything to all its members. Different people are at different levels in their knowledge of the faith. This is where a more typical schooling type system is helpful. But like I mentioned, many people don’t even know that there is more out there that they need to know. Most churches (whether by time constraints or limited preachers) are only able to teach a very compressed version of the gospel in order to reach a large amount of members. So in order to fix this problem we either have to revisit how we do church or how we go about obtaining Christian education.
*Special Challenge Question*
Each interviewee we will ask each other one thought provoking question that their counterpart will answer.
Considering that you’re a pastor and your passion is to shepherd the people of God, what do you currently find most detrimental to the Christian church? And if you could fix this, how would you?
Brandon: Great question Marqueze! I’ll do my best to answer this in a helpful way. In my estimation, I would say the lack of mature (tested through fire) Bible-Believing Christians within local churches has exemplified one of the greater detriments to the Christian church. Typically, paid staff within a church are overwhelmed with more soul-care responsibilities than they could ever sufficiently shepherd well. Moreover, those who should be displaying fruits of maturity, are increasingly becoming spiritually malnourished as they choose temporary American comforts over gospel-centered mission. As a result, churches are growing exceedingly wide yet shallow and this is alarming. Marqueze, I really do believe mature believers should be serving similar roles for the “young in faith” as what I believe you would affirm your professors do as you pursue formal theological education. Namely~ helping through teaching individuals to have a broader Christian worldview; specifically as they learn to have a better understanding of Imago Dei. I do believe there’s more than one way to help those we love grow in both knowledge and faith. Theological education in a school setting is one way, but not the only way. In fact, I would say arguably it’s not the best way. If all were equal, I would prefer for a group of matured-believers in the local context of a church to be the primary teachers; lovingly and sacrificially discipling people into maturity through daily life over a classroom style learning. I believe the method/mechanism we use to teach and equip Christ-followers is of paramount importance. As the spiritual amnesia increases regarding how we should interact with God’s word, ourselves, the world, and the people in it; American churches will continue to forget their mission and purpose. Therefore, prioritizing the development of matured believers (within the church) while simultaneously compelling them to see the beauty and value in being faithful to their local context must be prioritized higher. In my opinion, to not do so is to continue this downward spiral.
What has been the greatest source of adversity in your educational pursuit of theology? How has that adversity impacted your life?
Marqueze: In all honesty, other Christians. Like I mentioned before, many churches give a very compressed version of the gospel which makes sense considering they have to reach many members at many different levels. The problem is that when you go into deeper study of the Scriptures, you start to notice certain things. Some of these things aren’t that big of a deal while others can completely change the way you understand God or Christianity. I can’t speak for all theological schools but for APU’s Bible program, I can’t think of anyone who went through it and didn’t come out with significant changes to their faith. Some were more drastic than others but nevertheless everyone went through some type of change. The hardest part of this hands down was going back home and talking to family members or other Christians about the things I was learning and how it changed how I viewed the Scriptures. Because these people hadn’t gone through the same training I did, not only did they not understand what I was talking about, but rather they often opposed my change strongly. Of course there are varying degrees of this controversy but it’s there nevertheless. This has strongly impacted my life being that it has caused me to want to educate my fellow Christian brothers and sisters even more on the topic of theology. It’s this disconnect between the Academy and the Church that causes me to want to bridge this gap through work in both areas of Christianity.
This concludes the first half of our conversation. What can our readers look forward to in Part 2 of our interview?
Brandon: Both Marqueze and I are really excited about part two of this conversation. While part one served to present a framework of what theological education is and how each of us think about it fundamentally; part two’s focus will largely center on three areas: 1- The function of theological education in the homes and local churches of American society. 2- Better practices of theological education hoped for amongst Bible-Believing Christians. 3- Key concerns connected to the current landscape of theological institutions and Christian/religious
To continue the second half of this interview click HERE
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TELL US WHAT YOU THINK!
visit the website: MAKING MUCH OF CHRIST MINISTRIES
To learn more about The God who’s ready to walk with you click HERE
TELL US WHAT YOU THINK!